There's a big election just around the corner no not that one this one are you Team Royals or Team Chiefs or are you team skeptical or team totally confused hello I'm Nick Haines join me for the stadium tax debate coming up next today we're at a Crossroads in fact we're here to talk about the crossroads and Our intention to make it the new home of the Kansas City Royals what's your view on a new Royals ballpark downtown what about those plans for Arrowhead 2.0 you'd like seen the ads and Glimpse the glossy pictures now get ready to hear both sides in the stadium tax debate this hour We're partnering with the Kansas City library and American Public Square to bring you the proponents and opponents of the stadium tax support for the stadium tax debate is made possible in part by the support of the William T Kemper Foundation Commerce Bank trustee AARP Kansas City RSM Dave and Jamie Cummings Bob and Marlese Gourley the Courtney S Turner charitable trust John H M and Bank of America na co- trustees the restaurant at 1900 and by viewers like you thank you who says people are not interested in local elections we are here in a packed Kansas City Plaza Library with about 500 of our friends and neighbors to lift the hood uh on the state Stadium tax with supporters and opponents Sarah Tourville is with us she's the Executive Vice President of the Kansas City Royals she's the team Chief commercial and Community impact officer Sarah spent 20 years with Fox Sports and ESPN before joining the Royals front office Sly James is the former two-term mayor of Kansas City and the most visible spokesperson for the yes on Stadium tax campaign it was during his watch that Kansas city hosted the major league uh baseball all star game shortly after the last Stadium Renovations were approved by voters now Gary Sarnoff here in the middle won't be putting his thumb on the scale in this debate but playing the role of umpire as someone who has extensively studied and wrote about the history and trends of baseball a member of the society for American baseball research he comes to us from Alexandria Virginia also with us definitely putting her thumb on the scale in this debate is Becky Nace the former Kansas city councilwoman who now leads the committee against uh new royal stadium tactics and uh Patrick Tuohey may be the first person to come out in print opposing the stadium tax question he is director of public policy for the better cities project and a senior fellow at the show me Institute we're also going to hear at this hour from some other voices who have been entangled in this debate over the better part of the last year but first Sarah Tourville refresh our memory if you would uh why can't the Royals just stay where they are at the Tran Sports Complex well thank you Nick and and thanks for having us here this evening um Kansas City Royals are one of our City's greatest Assets in the fall of 2019 John Sherman assembled a group of local businessmen and women who came together to take on the responsibility of being stewards of this great franchise that responsibility includes of course the focus on the field and bringing a championship trophy to Kansas City but equally important is ensuring that we're planning for the future that we're stewards of our community planning requires Innovation it requires thinking ahead in terms of investing to ensure that the product on the field as well as The Fan Experience and the environment that we provide to our community is one that's Forward Thinking how are we going to be better off though as a community just because the Royals are moving seven miles north to the crossroads if you if this tax is approved well I wouldn't think about it as moving seven miles North it's about planning for the future and investing in an area that provides significant economic and Community benefits to Kansas City would be remiss if we weren't considering moving in an area where it can be a vibrant entertainment arts and sports District SL James we can't forget of course that half of the money from the stadium tax would go to the Chiefs the Royals get all the attention but half of the money would go to them how would we be better as a community uh with improvements that are going to take place at Arrowhead Stadium well you're you're uh first of all Nick it's good to see you good to see everybody else here thanks for coming tonight uh but here's the deal the bottom line is and you hit it right on the head the conversation seems to generate around the Royals but this vote is to keep both teams in Jackson County that's the Basel line how will we be better when the Chiefs have the entire complex to themselves they will have an extra 81 days within which to present more and more entertainment couldn't they have done more concerts if they put a roof over the stadium there's no roof as part of this yeah the roof probably would have jacked a price up by another couple billion and not only that uh I think the team enjoys playing in real weather on real grass that's one of the home field advantages and I think we saw that Advantage uh on the playoff game with Miami how many of you have seen the ads for the S campaign for the new stadium tax yeah we've seen those ads haven't you and one of the claims here is that we'll grow small businesses create good paying jobs lock in more than a billion dollar in private investment and with no new taxes what's not to like Becky Nace factually legally the ballot language says it's a new tax the only two things on this ballot language that remain the same are the team names and the number 38 cents don't we all want to keep the Royals in the stadiums for the next 40 years in Kansas City in Jackson County Patrick sure why not uh Kansas City is a great place to do business the owners of these teams have made B millions of dollars off of ticket sales off of marketing uh off of TV rights um they are perfectly able to do what they want with their teams my point is they ought to pay for it themselves they they realize all the benefits they realize all the benefits of ownership they don't share any of that with taxpayers they ought to pay the the price of of doing what they want Gary son off is there any ballpark in America that was built exclusively by the team owners with no public dollars involved most recently Oracle Park in San Francisco that was built with private funds and before that Dodger Stadium was built with private funds in 1962 and prior to that you have to go all the way back to 1923 Yankee Stadium you know I've often heard that there's no economic reports that justify this type of a deal and that there's no benefit to the taxpayers and I would refuse that there are economic reports that say exactly the opposite one of them is about the economic report of Levi Stadium where they just did a study in 2023 looking back on the 10 years since Levi has been built $468 million tax increases for Santa Clara $546 million in indirect spending 11,840 full-time jobs all that is done as an economic analysis so there is benefit but I also want to say something else we can try to reduce everything down to Dollars and cents but the city is about more than dollars and cents you don't come to a city saying how much is the how much is the money you come to the city saying where do I want to live and when you talk about where you want to live you have to talk about things that bring you Joy Pride happiness alternative opportunities to do things not just everything is reduced to Dollars cities are built for our children and when I was growing up we played at Municipal Stadium when my kids were growing up it was at Kaufman now my grandkids want another place to play uh to see another game as well the whole thing has got to be looked at as a whole and remember this is really about 50 years of partnership that these teams have had with the county up to this point it's worked out pretty well up to this point if I could I'd like to come back to thank you SL to Becky's comment about taxes and just to be clear so the ballot language that she's describing in indeed is a repeal of the tax what we're asking taxpayers is to pay 3A cents Penny the same amount of you spent today but the two teams will commit almost $400 million of savings back to taxpayers and what is that made up from that's $200 million in savings from a parks's tax which I encourage all of you to be seeking to the county to find out exactly where that money is going to be spent it's money from the insurance that the teams will pay themselves and the Royals alone will spend more than $140 million in a community benefits agreement thany you know the problem with numbers and when you talk about reducing it to numbers for some people it's their it's the money they live on and the more taxes you increase the less they choices they have on how they want to find their enjoyment and it may not be Sports however these numbers it's not less tax dollars over 40 years $50 million debt Services $2 billion for their returning $200 million back in that's a pretty good deal plus they need another billion my colleague by the way Kynala Phillips is here and she's taking all of the questions are going to come in here and we're going to get to as many of those as possible in fact we've already got a lot of questions that already come in from people who couldn't even be here like one of our viewers Jeff who couldn't be here and he says how exactly does the new ballpark and the improvements to the chief Stadium benefit the average person in Jackson County most people in the county can't afford to go to a game Sarah what's in it for them yeah I I would tell you that regardless of where we play baseball making our games affordable and accessible to all will always be a priority what's in it for them um we're going to continue to ensure that we provide that access we want to also find ways through a community benefits agreement that the team is providing incredible opportunity and if I could just talk a little bit about what does that mean um we're in a day and age where we need to change the diversity and composition not only of our fans but in terms of Workforce and opportunity because where you were born whatever zip code you're born into shouldn't control your destiny the team seeks to ensure that we increase the number of minorities and women that participate in businesses and benefit from this that we work towards providing health care and child care benefits education so that we can help people have more access to jobs better paying jobs and ultimately afford better homes for themselves Gary Sarnoff we hear a lot in this debate about how this is going to benefit people of modest means you right baseball was once a game it is now a business the crowd that attends baseball games is now a corporate crowd how was the mix of people attending games how has that changed well it used to be you could take a family of a couple you to family of four to a ball game because it was affordable you know tickets parking souvenirs concessions is is Affordable and now it's just become so pricey that really the best seats in the House can only be afford afforded by corporations so people who want to they want to take families to games if they don't sit in the nose bleach section of the bleachers they could get tickets through their corporations or other connections Sarah how is the mix of fans that would go to see a game if you have this Crossroads ballp park downtown be different than the ones who would come to the tan Sports Complex sure let let me first comment it's it is really important that we provide affordability and accessibility every year we give approximately 50,000 tickets back to the community for free to allocate in terms of planning for the future it's like a sports and we are we're bigger than a sports company we have to think of ourselves as an entertainment company so think of it as there's got to be something for everybody there we want to reach people of all demographics of age of race to ensure that for the Avid fan there's something for you and for this the person that may be there just to seek something socially or have a memorable experience with our family that we can provide those opportunities to everyone okay I want to hear questions from the audience Kynala Phillips our engagement person here at Kansas City PBS has been taking all of those questions thank you so much for being with us here what does give us one of the first questions we have from our audience tonight yes so this viewer question is from John and John asks my wife and I are old enough to remember downtown baseball and football they moved because of limited parking and crime so what has changed what has changed first of all the stadiums didn't move because of parking and crime that was certainly one of the factors but the teams outgrew the stadiums the stadiums were outmoded they did not meet the criteria for stadiums at that time that were being built that's the reason they moved and then they moved out to a suburban area at the time Independence Independence is much more vital now than it was was at that time uh and found a perfect spot and did something that hadn't been done and built the twin stadiums that became something that was very uh instrumental in getting people from Kansas to come back and forth because of the highway system but the fact of the matter is is that there's nothing else out there to in the stadium footprint that's going to draw people to it so if you're not going to a game you don't do you don't go there so one of the things about moving downtown and renovating Arrowhead is to create more activity around both locations for a baseball game you need walk up uh ticket buyers you don't get walkup ticket buyers at truman you'll have walkup ticket buyers if you're downtown for football you want have another type of experience and you want to have people there it's true you can't even get the bus to the tuman sports complex Gary to add that the new stadium in that were built in 1972 uh that was also taken to a vote in fact on June 27th 1967 Jackson County voted in favor of a bond to support new Stadium's $43 million I just want to point that out Becky how much is the parking issue which was mentioned by the viewer an issue for your campaign it's a huge issue the idea and their attempts to minimize falls on deaf ears because we all have gone down there for other events and have experienced the parking issue another issue is you know the has there been studies on air quality and and the exhaust and the increased traffic because I know if you're in a parking garage stuck for an hour you smell you take in a lot of exhaust fumes but I also want to go back to the the Eastern Jackson County The Truman Sports Complex the voters were not given what they were promised back at that election they were promised development around the stadiums and they never layered any incentives any any effort because they considered that sprawl and everybody was fighting sprawl I want I want to get Sarah to respond to that because I think it's interesting okay let's ask Sarah about that why couldn't there have been development around say the Kaufman Stadium during the first I think your question that we started with was around parking if you don't mind if I answer that first absolutely there are um 40,000 parking spots downtown there are 21 excuse me I I appreciate that if I could just finish there's 21,000 parking spots within a 10-minute walk to where the new ballpark will will take place but but let me talk a little bit further it is our responsibility to ensure that our fans have the best experience it's our responsibility to ensure that the businesses down there do not suffer because of an event at the Ballpark so what we're committed to throughout this process is we've conducted parking studies we'll share those we've committed to The Crossroads Community Association that will continue to do those but this is a different we aren't planning for today we're planning for our kids and our grandkids future so technology plays an incredible role in today's day you buy your ticket on your phone you also buy your parking pass there will be zone parking you will know exactly how to get into downtown it will direct you where to park on top of that to assure that people have clear signs we will be responsible from construction mitigation we'll have a traffic and parking management plan that'll be in place and in addition for any business that's down there we will ensure that there's residential permit parking so that those businesses and the people that want to visit those places can get in and out easily it's interesting we're having a conversation about parking downtown when I remember about 25 years ago we had a conversation about there was nobody downtown uh you know things change things change I'll also point out that if you want to live in a city that is growing then there are going to inevitably be some growing paints but we are smart enough to figure that out there were 50,000 people downtown this past weekend Big 12 Mia ComicCon all in three different places down town they parked all over the place not to mention on Sunday the current game and one of the women that went to the current game was interviewed on the news and said I parked in a garage downtown no problem I caught the shuttle down to the game no problem I was here in 10 minutes Patrick Tuohey sha o' with the downtown Council told a meeting of the Jackson County Legislature the T-Mobile Center was built with just 30 parking spaces and quote it repeatedly sells out so people can find parking when they really want it if they want to go to a Drake concert or they want to go to a St Patrick's Day Parade or Chief's parade they'll find the the uh a parking space for that no absolutely if people want to a do a thing they they make it work again we're getting what's different about this well we're getting caught up in the in the minutia of of technology or or or commitment to community the point is private owners should be able to do as they please with their team without hitting up taxpayers let me let me make a point about moving from the suburbs back to the city this is a trend all over the country in the' 60s and 70s stadia moved out of the Cities into the suburbs now with the beginning of the Orioles in 1992 they want to move back into the city each time they want to hit up taxpayers for subsidies for sales taxes for property taxes because we have proven time and again to be suckers we buy all the arguments they build these they build these huge they build these huge stadia and then when people bulk at another payout they say we're going to move the number of teams that have threatened to move to Nashville alone the Orioles the Brewers the A's the Royals of course the white socks it's a scam John Sherman to his credit John Sherman wants to do the right thing for her share owners and build an entertainment district downtown because teams don't generate enough wealth so he wants to build hotels and restaurants and that's wonderful he ought to be able to do that he ought to do it on his own dime Gary um The Royals are committed to going downtown what is the actual Trend though among teams these days in the last few years are teams moving downtown or are they also saying our fans are in the suburbs we're going to move to the suburbs it appears the most teams want to go downtown I think most teams head downtown of course you have Atlanta where they left downtown and move to the suburbs I just think downtown appeals to a lot of these teams for for what for I guess various reasons but I think the trend the trend is to either stay downtown or move downtown when it comes to this new ballpark the question where do I park is probably the one you hear you seem to hear the most the second is uh where is the community benefits agreement that's important to groups like standup KC and KC tenants that advocate for low-income workers and renters uh in Kansas City Terrence Wise is with standup KC Terrence what's your question for the panel would you can can you come over here with me would that be okay with you stand up definitely you know today we were forced uh to oppose the Royals in this new sales tax and it's not a question of a sales tax it's a question on April 2nd are we going to choose our families our mothers brothers and sisters the community or are we going to choose the Royals and Chiefs that's the question being called on April 2nd and we're going to be voting no for our families and the community my question I'm sorry question my question is can you explain your failure to meet a common sense demands our Common Sense demands for a strong CBA that benefits Kansas cians as a whole and that will provide affordable housing and good living wage jobs how have we failed so miserably in doing that Terence thank you so much okay who'd like to respond to that former mayor Sly James you want go ahead well first of all first of all there is a strong Community benefits agreement of $140 million that's let you'll see it you'll see it tomorrow at the end of the day okay please continue man thank you I'd appreciate it you know part of the problem is is that if I'm not mistaken you walked out of the negotiations but I I might be wrong but part of the problem is is that we got over 900 million ion dollar of various demands from various groups for various things we can't do everything so we're get what we're doing is the best community benefits agreement that's ever been done in this city the highest one in baseball ever Becky I have Community meetings forums talks for the past eight weeks and every single meeting they say we're going to have a community benefits agreement signed in a day or two we're going to have a lease agreement signed in a day or two we're going to have something with labor eight weeks and they don't have that so they're telling people that all over Jackson County most of us of course are not in any of these rooms could you just give us a a sense of why that might be sure I I appreciate Becky's been in the room for eight weeks we've been in the room discussing this for 18 months this is the Royals have been unwavering and their commitment to strong Community benefits and have one chance to do this and your chance you got to get it right and so as part of these conversations we've engaged with numerous organizations we've met with chance we've met with many of the people here today to hear their concerns we've been presented as fly mentioned with over $900 million of ass for a single team for the Kansas City Royals we can't do everything but you bet we're going to do our best so let me just talk about what we are committed to we're committed to the highest minority Workforce participation goals in all of Kansas City we're participated in we're committed to including them not just for jobs but longterm we're committed to ensuring that as we increase minority participation we provide them with the Workforce Development tools and training that they need that starts with resources and education we're committed to the Kansas City Public Schools that they don't suffer throughout this process in any sort of Revenue loss we're committed to affordable housing but in many ways if we don't fix the other things to ensure that they have training and Healthcare and child care benefits all of those things are in our unprecedented and historic CBA so while Becky says we're waiting you will see our community benefits agreement tomorrow why is it taking so long though it's taken so long because there's so many requests coming in at different times and the diligence we may not be working at the pace that everybody wants us to be but we are working at a pace to ensure that when the voters go to vote before April 2nd they have all the information that they need okay Robert Brown is with Kansas City tenants what is the lingering question Robert you would still like answered uh before election day would you mind joining me over here thank you so much yes my name is Robert Brown and I'm a leader with the KC tennis Union and I live in the Third District and I'm in a building for people 60 and over that other on disability or Social Security I've live on a fixed income and I know the sales tax would cost Jackson County West 2 billion over the next 40 years we know on top of that the Roy say they would need another 700 million from city or state for this new stadium what we don't know is how much this new stadium will actually cost or why we should have to pay for it my question is what is the total cost of this downtown Stadium going to be give me a number and why does John Sherman a billionaire and the RW a major leue franchise need my money to do it robertt thank you so much okay all right there's a lot in there I know a lot of the push here is there a response to that two parts I'm gonna let him first answer in terms of U his the first part and then I'll talk about John Sherman and the ask of taxpayers the stadium will cost a billion dollars the uh Royals are contributing a billion three the 700 million comes from other sources and none of that happens without a yes vote on uh April 2nd the here's why you you do it because the stadiums aren't owned by the teams stadiums are owned by the county you need the tax dollars to maintain the stadiums the tax dollars that are being paid now go to maintenance and repair on the stadiums that's what they're for and even with those tax dollars it's still not enough to keep those stadiums in play Shape last year the Chiefs put in 23 or 28 million Royals will put in money every year as well I think John uh Mark Donovan said that since 2015 or 2017 that cha put in $150 million to maintain those stadiums over and above the tax dollars so the tax dollars go to the stadium that the county owns that's why you need tax dollars the other thing too is you can say what you want but at the end of the day there are very few things that you enjoy in this city that aren't partially paid for by private dollars and tax dollars the is one the aquarium is one Union Station was one everything has some public private partnership because neither the private sector nor the public sector can do the things that people want on their own there has to be that partnership between the two that's all we're asking for here same partnership we've had for the last 50 years the idea that John Sherman the billion ER as everyone's describing in as is lining his pockets with profits let me talk to you about the John Sherman that many of you haven't had a chance to meet John and Marne Sherman have raised their family in Kansas City built their businesses and privately been giving back hundreds of millions of dollars they're not looking for any credit and when John and Marne Sherman move on from this world they're not intending to do anything greater than the leave this asset and all of its profits back to the city Becky you know a lot of these other public uh financed and supported uh entities s return money back the problem with this is with so much taxpayer investment in this and in this case and they keep throwing out the billion dollars that's for their private real estate deal we're talking and the question one is about the stadium on the stadium the Royals have committed to about $100 million over the 40-year period and and the problem with this is also that in 2006 a lease agreement was in place a CBA agreement was in place all of these agree that all of these agreements were legally binding and in Place Kansas City had committed to how and what they were going to fund the state of Missouri had committed to how and what they were going to fund we don't have any of these answers and and it begs the question why well what happens though if Kansas City or the state of Missouri looks at this and says no thank you for adding the additional money necessary to build a downtown Ballpark and there's no text that's being levied and the teams will explore their options thank you mayor James I want to hear from Kynala Phillips who has your questions in her hand Kynala hi okay so we have a lot of people asking about how much much this tax will actually cost them Lisa asks if I vote Yes how much will this tax cost me each year how much will it cost to M James an estimate of about $50 Patrick is that about that's the estimate that I've heard well the problem is Kansas City's tax rate in some plac is already over 10% the reason why the sales tax is such a bad way to raise any kind of Revenue is because people shop across boundaries so fewer people will shop in Jackson County if they can get the same Goods elsewhere we already see that with State Line right you see all the liquor stores on the Missouri side because the rules are different all the medical places on the Kansas side because the laws are different so what we're doing is we're chasing people out of the city we're making it too expensive to live here let me add one other thing about the CBA I do not envy your task dealing with uh a CBA and all the community groups and all their demands I am sure at the end of the day you feel like you're being fleeced uh because so many groups stand up and make demands that may be unreasonable but understand the best Community benefits agreement is for the Royals and the Chiefs to pay their taxes all of them that is how we all benefit can so uh we've heard the Royals say that they can't stay at the K because it's suffers from concrete cancer the chief's president recently told reporters quote one team got a good batch of concrete and one team didn't do you agree with that assessment did the K receive a bad batch of concrete that Arrowhead did not okay okay I'll com on that first Sarah thank you thank you um I personally wouldn't have chosen to use the word batch but I will tell you that it should come as no surprise to the county and the county executive that there has been a report since 2007 that has shown significant deterioration in concrete cancer as a matter of fact in 2006 they tested 59 samples of the 59 samples 56 of them had concrete cancer so the taxpayers dollars what you're paying for today is actually to repair concrete as we look to make an investment in the future why would we continue to want to ask taxpayers to support a building that is deteriorating but but I also just want to be remiss we're not saying that we're solely leaving because of concrete cancer there are a number of things we're leaving we're leaving because we have to have a vision and a plan for the future we have to assure that our team has the amenities that it needs to perform at the highest level and that we continue to compete and assure that our fans have the amenities they deserve Gary Sarnoff we told Kauffman Stadium at more than 50 years old has outlived its usefulness Fenway Park home at the Boston Red Sox is 122 years old Wrigley Field home of the Chicago cabs is 120 years old why aren't those cities demolishing those ballparks and building something new what is the difference what is the difference there well I think those ballparks those ballparks are fous famous they're ancient they're uh they have a lot of character and they're nostalgic which appeals to Baseball fans theyve put a lot of money in them to refurbish them to keep them going and they've got great character you have the green monster at Fenway Park you got the Ivy at Wrigley Field so that's the difference and I I think also about coffin Stadium when it was built when it opened its doors in 1973 it was state-ofthe-art it was the best baseball stadium in America however and it's and it continued to be through the 1980s into the 1990s however when stadiums like Canam yards and other new stadiums were built it kind of the fans kind of changed from loving a futuristic ballpark to a nostalgic ballpark so I think that's the difference M James you know this this idea that people are leaving to go uh to Kansas or elsewhere because of the price of goods is really incorrect the population of Kansas City is the highest it's been ever it's 500,000 not only do the people in Jackson County pay the sales tax everybody who drives through Jackson County pays the sales tax everybody who comes into town from someplace else for meeting to pay the sales tax of million people who went to the rally for the Chiefs pay the sales tax the people who were down at Union Station for the World Series parade pay the sales tax and there were more people in those positions at that time than live in Kansas City period so at the end of the day a lot of things that you hear are just not true one of the things is is that when you when you have to hear this and you have to understand the source of the information there were a lot of things said about the airport too one of the things that Mr Tuohey said about the airport was that it would be fewer flights the exact opposite has happened there's more flights all the time Southwest just added like 10 new flights it flight service has been increased all of these things have to be judged in a way that is B basically fair and a lot of them were judged in advance on based on political philosophy or economic philosophy but not looked at after the fact thank you P so first of all that report you H is that public what the report you just held up that that was May I have a copy yes sir may I have that copy but it's it's public it's please don't read from it I won't read for it but I just want to make sure it's publicly available because my understanding was okay and had been so no I never predicted the number of flights coming and going from Kansas City the point was we were spending a lot of money to build fewer Gates which is absolutely true uh but but sorry one other thing uh the population of Kansas City has been stagnant for about 50 years we may be the highest ever but it's by a smidge Kansas City needs to focus on growing our population being a good place to live and increasing sales taxes and giving away property tax sales tax income tax to everybody who wants to build a hotel or stadium is not the way we grow Sarah Tourville with the Royals property tax because I know that's a a very um sensitive topic for all of us our property taxes but I I think Patrick is leading many people here to think that there's no economic benefit from these two teams when in fact the Chiefs Alone um generated 9933 million of impact but what did Jackson County get from that $572 million of impact so I'm struggling to understand that you say that the taxpayers are are Ben are not benefiting but indeed they are because the money that's going right back into their Community into their stores into their restaurants so it's not just a matter of what the teams generate it's you you subtract that from what taxpayers are paying to get it it is a net loss for taxpayers and it's not just these stadiums it's stadiums around the country ask you What stadiums around the country thank you Sarah I just want to understand um what can you talk more specifically about which projects have not delivered um have have delivered a net loss in Kansas City no you talked about around the country which sports projects no the econ million excuse me gentlemen okay thank you sir thank you no the economic literature is is very clear the subsidies don't pay off for the taxpayers yes the teams generate money but it is less than what the taxpayers have put into it that's how you look at economic impact you just don't look at the spending you're like what did taxpayers give to get that income sure Becky you I know you've been trying to get in thank you this is a a bigger picture about you know that they talk about 500,000 people in Kansas City well the metro area is what two 2.3 2.6 million and all of that area is enjoying the benefit of these teams and Jackson County's paying for it solely that's not right but that that's that's really not accurate Jackson County's not paying for all of these projects so $3 billion do for your new St okay we have a disagreement on but again we have our facts wrong she just said we're going to pay $3 billion for our Stadium we have said publicly that our Stadium will cost a billion dollars we're asking Jackson County that contribution will be about 350 million the team itself the team ownership will put approximately $300 million into the stadium so first of all it's not A3 billion Stadium it's A1 billion doll stadium and we are not asking taxpayers for $3 billion it's not true what it's a Jackson County executive's Budget on this $50 million's in the audience wave your hand if I'm misstating it $50 million a year Debt Service payment for 40 years let's do the math 50 million times 40 is2 billion and they still have another million billion to get from the I I want to move on to something else one of one of the concerns people have is you know cast your mines back 15 months ago the Royals come out with 14 sites that could be their new ballpark including one near the 18th of mine ja district one in North Kansas City one in the West Bottoms near Hyvee Arena why does this site on top of the former Kansas City Star Press Pavilion build bu next to T-Mobile Center beat out every other place that you looked at well [Applause] respectfully respectfully Nick we didn't look at 14 over the years 14 different sites have been considered this particular site is actually been considered many different times that predated this ownership group but the opportunity to move in downtown where you have the incredible density that mayor James has spoken about where you have the connection not just to the crossroads not just to Power and Light but it's a connection to 18th and Vine it's about connecting neighborhoods not neighborhood it's about okay okay no no let please thank you six months ago Sarah the Royals shortlisted to two sites one in North Kansas City one east of City Hall in the East Village what happened behind the scenes that this site that wasn't even suggested at the time would be the one yeah I mean I mean first of all you have to consider what is going to be the financial commitment that goes into finding the right site and the East Village is a great site and on on paper it looks like it's this great land if you moved to the East Village we would have been displacing people from their homes the East Village please let her speak let her speak thank you Sarah we'll take a breath and we'll continue on thank you so this is about coming into downtown where we can continue to Spur economic growth where we can do great things I I just want to acknowledge the crossroads because there's many people in here and we have an incredible amount of empathy and i' be remiss if I didn't say that we wish the order of operations had been different we are committed not just for the community benefits that I talked about but to a Crossroads Community benefits that will ensure that any small business whether they're a tenant or a business owner is taken care of we are committed to a commitment in The Crossroads Community improvement district to ensure safety and crime is is addressed we're committed to ensuring that the culture and the Arts in the street are preserved that we're protecting the artists and the entertainers okay thank you Patrick okay so here's my frustration with this whole issue is it's on the ballot [Applause] prematurely all these things should have been decided before it went to ballot uh the teams rushed to get it on the ballot and they can't answer a lot of questions and I want to take you what you're word but these things should all be in contracts and enforceable and and one other thing that you mentioned before if this is voted down the threat is the teams are going to leave the teams aren't going anywhere I've lived in Kansas City long enough to know that if this is defeated John Sherman will be right back at the table with the county maybe a little chastened and he will work on all these things and will'll be voting on this again in a year and it may not be a deal that I like next time but it will probably it almost has to be better than what we're looking at today May James you ever met John Sherman you ever talked to John Sherman about this so how the heck do you know what he's going to do if this vote fails because I'll tell you at the end of the day the reason okay thank you thank you let's let's hear our panelists thank you thank you at the end of the day East Village was rejected for four reasons number one the highway the highway at that area is a total mess it would have had to been rebuilt number two number two the East Village would have required an Entertainment District around it no reason to do that when you're a half mile away from power light number three farther away from Transportation hubs like the street car and number four it's not just housing it's low income housing that's there and a couple of shelters that would have had to have gone and that was something that he didn't want to do and while we're talking about John Sherman let me just say this John Sherman has put hundreds of kids through college on his own dime and while everybody wants to vilify him while everybody wants to talk nonsense thank you while everybody wants to talk nonsense most of the people saying this stuff have never met the man never have a conversation with him never had to work with him okay thank you thank you we're going to try and hear the panel I want to hear from canala we have a lot of questions coming in from our audience a lot of questions let's get through these so folks want to know so why were these initiatives combined what are the benefits of those and another person is asking what if they're in favor of the tax but not of the proposed location so they V how do they vote Becky they vote no and I want to add that this process did not adhere to good government they were in negotiations they went around the process to get around Frank White's insistence that is in his opinion the current lease did not serve Jackson County taxpayers and as he negotiated to try to get a better deal for the taxpayers in his opinion they could not come to terms so they took it around him to the Jackson County Legislature put it on the ballot with no signed legally binding agreements and that should go back to Frank White to do his job and allow him to negotiate sh I I think Becky used the word the term good government good government engages with people we the county executive has had a proposal on his table for almost two years there's been a lack of Engagement there's been a lack of interest to move the conversations forward and at every point when he asked us to reconsider and hold things off and we obliged by that on two different occasions we were met with the same resistance resistance to ignore it so I applaud the county legislators who didn't go behind him and we didn't put it on the ballot they chose to put it on the ballot for decades we have gone to Kaufman Stadium to see the Royals play what happens to the Kaufman name if this new ballpark is built in The Crossroads does the K disappear does it sah so you and Kaufman that his legacy will be with us wherever we go we we have not decided what the ballpark would be called but the history both in y and Kaufman as well as the historic monuments The Fountains the crowns all the things that we love will all be part of this ballpark Patrick already bridged this question but it is a lot on people's minds what happens uh if voters say no to the tax on April 2nd what happens then M James I think I'll say exactly what Mark Donovan has said and what John Sherman has said if the taxpayers say no then they'll look at all their their options and all of those options are available to them and if you think let me just say this there's been four state four teams that have moved I think in the last five or six years every one of them has moved because of stadiums Gary sonof how often is it we always hear these threats everywhere around the country how often does it really happen and are they mainly idle threats well it hasn't happened very often in recent years of course it did happen in the NFL with the San Diego Chargers they were voted down for new stadium so they packed up to they packed up and and moved to LA but uh I think it's a threat that does need to be taken seriously because I understand that Utah just passed a bill and they are going to build a Major League Stadium in Salt Lake City and no doubt they will be lobbying for a major league baseball team to transfer I'm a fan of both teams have been my whole life I take my children grandchildren and I am offended that after 50 years the taxpayers have been good partners they funded these teams and that they would respond with if you don't give us our money we're leaving what kind of partnership is that during during a recent meeting all right thank you during a recent interview with KSHB Chiefs president M Donovan was asked what the team's plan might be if the sales tax fails he responded this way I think they would have to include leaving Kansas City is that an option The Royals are considering Sarah I I would Echo the sentiment I mean Our Hope we've been partners for 50 years Becky's right our hope is that we stay partners with Jackson County for another 50 years I will tell you if the excuse me Patrick if the vote does not pass we will consider all of our options can so Vier question will Patrick Le gave us his private cell phone number so we know who to blame if the Royals and Chiefs leave town all right believe me if I are you willing to give us your you s James already gave you his report now you're going to give us your cell phone number let me tell you if I had that much power in this city it'd be much better run uh here's the frustration watching this that everybody in Jackson County is feeling which is the name of the committee suggests that there's a threat that they're leaving the name of this event suggests that there's a threat that they're leaving but when asked are you leaving they simply say we'll consider all our options now of course they will of course any organization would but they're here for years more and the reality is if this is voted down the negotiations do not end there John Sherman speaking on Sports Talk radio station 610 last week stated quote there's lots of cities that would love to have these franchises Gary who would be clamoring for the Royals well like I said soling City's building a new ballpark but I I understand that Nashville is also in the mix and so is Carolina you know it's very interesting that he would characterize it this way the whole idea does anybody believe that if the teams wanted to lead that they would go through this mess they said to keep them here in town they want to be in Jackson County they said that from day one the bottom line is simply this if they wanted to leave they wouldn't bother with this they' just simply go through the process and leave I'm sorry I've got a few years left on my mortgage if I could convince Jackson County to give me a billion dollars to stay in Waldo I absolutely would do it please Sarah restate I mean Patrick keeps assuming that we're asking for something more when we're actually giving back I want to reemphasize that taxpayers will receive $200 million back in benefits from the parks tax from the insurance on top of community benefits that don't exist today so none of this what doesn't add up no all we know all we know from this from this election is that if it passes Jackson County institutes a new 40-year sales tax that is all that is no pun intended concrete about this everything you're saying and again about about the cost of the stadium about Community benefits about return I want to believe you I need to see it in writing and the people of Jackson County need to see it in writing we should not we should not be voting on this let's you're fine with it I voted today mayor unfortunately I figured as much but I just wanted to know what your position would be you keep on saying you want to see it and writing I want to know if that's going to change your position no I I said earlier if this is renegotiated it will be a better deal for Jackson County than what whatever it is we have now but it will still be worse than if the Chiefs and Royals just paid their taxes so it's not a matter of making me happy it's a matter of getting a deal that is better than the nothing we are talking about right now some people say why the hurry the current sales tax which he pay for the upkeep of the Truman sports complex doesn't expire until 2031 so don't you still have another seven years to tweak the plan possibly consider a different site Sarah in the history they've never waited in 1990 they renegotiated leases seven years before the lease expired in 1996 they renegotiated leases 9 years before the leases expired we are in in 2024 the lease expires 7 years you don't wait until it expires Becky they do that because they always want more money it's never enough you agree to a lease in a term and then they come back early because they want Renovations or want some new things but they say it's no more money because it's still a 38% sales tax as it is now see that that's a that's a ridiculous statement and it can go on forever and ever and ever when you're this this 40-year tax is going to generate $792 million you're going to pay over 40 years two billion for that debt that's no good deal I I want to be respectful of your time um canala do you have a bon burner question for us that could conclude this that people would be standing up with r rapturous Applause dabbing their eyes with Kleenex do you have something like that okay so Richard says he's heard about demands for affordable housing as a part of the Community benefits agreement he asked what about the teams making at least 40% of the seats available at an affordable price like $10 for a Royals game or $20 for a Chief's game that's reasonable isn't it okay what would happen with the ticket prices um are they going to be more expensive when you move downtown we will always have a price point that allows every person into the team including the 50,000 tickets that we donate back into the community I saw a a early ticket order form today from the royals I forget how many dates but I think it's like 30 dates of half price tickets so they are doing things to do it the main reason Sarah for people to vote Yes in your estimation on this tax on April 2nd is what I know that many of the people in the room love the Royals and the and the Chiefs this isn't a decision about baseball downtown baseball this is a decision about keeping the two teams here for the next 50 years and the reason main reason for voting no Patrick is what people of Jackson County need to demonstrate that they've got some dignity and they don't want to be treated out of fear and threats from a team that has benefited so much by being among us but there's another voice for why you want to vote Yes and that comes from former mayor Sly James the final word on why you should vote Yes M James because this city is made up a lot of Divergent Parts a lot of memories a lot of feelings a lot of Pride and these teams are part of that they've been here we all have pride in them it's the one thing that we can unite and talk about at the water cooler on Monday after a game and there's no discussion of politics or divisions these teams bring people together I just cannot get away from the fact that a lot of people are not interested in sports and can't afford tickets and never will be able to afford tickets and that's a fact and we should have a discussion about how we want to spend $3 billion as a community the other point is for them to threaten fans who care about them and who buy their merch and season tickets is is not a way to be a good partner and it people are offended by it all righty and that is our Stadium debate courtesy of the royal Sarah tville former mesai James baseball historian Gary sonof from the no campaign Becky n show me Institute senior fellow Patrick Tui and thank you and I know we had some rockus time together but boy thanks for letting us get through it all we're very appreciative of that early in person voting is now underway we're going to know the results soon will it be team yes or team no we'll find out on Election Day April 2nd I'm Nies from all of us at Kansas City PBS and our debate sponsors American Public Square and the Kansas City Library be well keep calm and carry on [Music] [Music] he