Strange walking the runway.

You are a long way from home.

Ten years ago, the nation watched as the city of Ferguson, Missouri, erupted following the fatal police shooting of Michael Brown.

One police cruiser that is fully engulfed right now.

Missouri's governor is sending the National Guard to bring peace and order to the city of Ferguson.

The scene along West Florissant spiraled into total chaos moments after police officer Darren Wilson was cleared in the shooting death of Michael Brown.

Uncontrolled mayhem erupted.

Windows smashed.

Stores looted and businesses torched in the darkness.

Oh, man.

We saw all of the grand man.

We should all be angry because of what's going on right now.

Have we learned the lessons of Ferguson?

Ferguson right here.

A simmering distrust that exists between too many police departments and too many communities of color.

This hour, we're at the Church of the Resurrection downtown with local law enforcement and civil rights leaders to examine the state of policing ten years after Ferguson.

A partnership event with American Public Square funding for this program comes from the William Kemper Foundation Farmers Bank trustee, with additional support from Dave and Jamie Cummings, Bob and Marlese Gourley.

The Courtney S Turner Charitable Trust, John H Mize and Bank of America, N.A.

Co Trustees, the Francis Family Foundation through the Discretionary Fund of David and Janet Francis.

And by viewers like you.

Thank you.

And now here is your moderator for tonight's discussion.

Nick Haines.

Does it seem like ten years ago.

It's gone by quickly, hasn't it?

A decade ago, this very week, Ferguson, Missouri, is in flames.

Our own Congressman, Emanuel Cleaver, said it looked like a war zone.

In fact, he was even more descriptive than that.

He says it looked like something you would see on the streets of Beirut or Baghdad.

And anyone who was here at that time remembers that there were fears that that unrest would spill over right here in Kansas City.

A Darrell Forte , by the way, was Kansas City police chief at the time.

He now serves as Jackson County sheriff.

Stacy Graves was climbing the ranks of the CPD when Michael Brown was shot.

She is now the city's chief of police.

Jean Peters Baker was starting her career as Jackson County prosecutor when Ferguson erupted.

She is now getting ready to depart that high profile job after 13 years in that office.

And civil rights leader Gwen Grant was horrified by the scenes playing out in Ferguson ten years ago.

She would make it into the pages of the New York Times, faulting the police and the political response to the unrest.

She leads the Urban League of Kansas City.

Please welcome our panelists.

Cheif Forte, I remember, by the Ms.. Sly James was leaving Kansas City immediately following the shooting of Michael Brown.

He appeared in the media and was asked, could Ferguson happen here?

His answer, yes.

And he had four words.

Ferguson can happen anywhere.

Were you concerned ten years ago that we were going to see those same protests erupt here?

Absolutely.

And one of the reasons you can't control who participates in civil unrest.

Oftentimes, you have people who come in from other areas that have no connection to the area where it's occurring.

So, yes, absolutely.

So what was different for you?

I think me and some other people had great relationships with others.

We had developed and nurtured relationships for years.

The staff around me, some political leaders, they let us do what we needed to do and have to go out and interact with people.

And again, I think a huge piece of preventing some of civil unrest is having those relationships pre incident.

We forget this at the time, but Stacey creates, even though we now know he was the chief of police of Kansas City, you were right on his shoulder at that time.

I was I was chief for days operations sergeant.

And during that time, I remember Ferguson.

I remember I had been in the media as a spokesperson.

I remember how we looked at that and how we would have responded as a police department should that have happened here.

But even more so, I learned under then she Forté just being right next to him, being his operations sergeant and seeing how interactive and how how you should value the relationship between police and the community.

I learned a lot from that.

Working under two for two.

You were still in your first term in office, Jeanne Petersburg.

Can you still remember that day vividly?

Yeah, I remember it vividly.

And and because I knew there would be a prosecutor response and I learned a lot about what not to do.

And that's from watching how that didn't move from the prosecution.

And we're going to be looking at a lot of that during the next hour together.

Look, when I was poring through newspaper articles, by the way, about Ferguson, saw your name immediately afterwards in the New York time, concerned about what was happening with response, what, ten years later is the lesson that we still haven't learned from Ferguson.

The issue of the relationship with the community as she talks about is important To have a relationship before there's a problem, rather than trying to build a relationship in the midst of unrest.

So I think we're on our way to learning that lesson better.

If I reflect back from from Ferguson and compare that to George Floyd.

I would say that Casey PD missed a lot of opportunities at that time and totally mishandled the unrest because of the lack of a relationship between the office of the police chief and the community that they serve.

You know, it's easy to forget now, but Ferguson exposed us for the very first time on many Americans for the very first time to a fledgling group called Black Lives Matter.

That wasn't something that was very familiar all across the country until that happened ten years ago in a missouri town.

It also changed our whole vocabulary.

We started a new phrase.

It was called the Ferguson affair.

632 now, and it's a phrase you might have heard before the Ferguson effect.

Many believe it's the reason some officers are backing off of policing out of fear that their actions will be later questioned.

Cities across the United States are reeling from a dramatic spike in violent crime, and some, including the FBI director, James Kirby, say that's because of what is being called the Ferguson effect.

I spoke to officers privately in one big city precinct who describe being surrounded by young people with mobile phones held high, taunting them when they get out of their cars.

They said to me, we feel under siege.

We don't feel much like getting out of our cars.

It has a chilling effect on these officers when they realize that if they do their job, that they're going to be vilified in the media and they're not going to be supported by their agencies and they're not going to do the job as vigorously as they might have before.

Are we still feeling the Ferguson effect or did you never buy into that concept in the first place?

I would say in Kansas City, because that's what I can speak for, is after Ferguson.

I don't know if that necessarily took effect here in Kansas City.

I think it's because of the relationship that we had under Chief Forte's leadership.

We had a good relationship with the community, but I would say maybe that was more post 2020 George Floyd, where I think there were times where officers were just worried about the risks that they saw being played out nationwide.

You know, we have the well-thought off Pew Center for Research who surveyed 8000 police officers three years after Ferguson as to what the effect is.

What did they discover?

Three out of every four of those officers said interactions between police and black residents have become more tense.

72% of the officers said they'd be less willing to stop and question people who seemed suspicious.

So was the Ferguson effect real?

There were 40, according to your stats, Yes, but but.

But I agree with that, Chief.

Gray's a lot.

I didn't see it a lot here.

I did see it.

And we've had incidents throughout my 30 year tenure at the police department where something would happen, officer would or would be disciplined or whatever, fired up or whatever, and people slowed down for a week or two.

But then so many people care when they put the uniform and badge on, they go back out and say, We have to continue to do what we do.

There's been sometimes a lull in activity, but we go back to doing what we do.

We concentrate on the police component of the Ferguson effect.

But when Grant isn't there a reverse effect, too, that members of the community then felt they couldn't trust the police and so if they had tips, they knew things that were happening in their community, they weren't going to reach out.

When you know, the community will not collaborate with a department that they don't trust, period.

So without trust, there is no collaboration.

And clearly there was an absence of trust between police and community here in Kansas City.

And that trust still is not there.

Basically, what we feel in the community is they may not come when we call, when we need them to come and support or to respond when we call them, But they show up far too much with overpolicing, racial profiling and those things that create that negative relationship and cause.

So this whole Ferguson effect does absolutely go both ways, I think.

Sheriff 40 And if you look back at 1968 when they had the riots in Kansas City, Missouri, prior to 1968, we didn't have homicides at 100 plus after 1968.

1969 was the first year there.

We fight over 100 homicides.

We went from 98, I believe, to 116.

So that showed me when I was the sergeant homicide unit, as I was looking at numbers, something happened between the police and other segments of the community.

So I think we have to be mindful of that.

That's an interesting point.

Growing up during that time and living through the riots in the aftermath of the King's assassination, I was in high school and the police rolled up on us and started the fight we did.

The young people were not rioting.

The police attacked us.

And so those types of things make it very difficult because we win.

And oftentimes even now, if we call the police and we become the victim.

So all of those things play in the minds of of individuals in the community, which make it a lot more difficult to build trust.

And I just want to say, coming in as chief of police, that was the utmost importance for me to come in and to start by listening.

We have communities in our city where where some say we don't have enough police and we have some communities and can study the say or over police.

So it's my job to come in there to hear what what people want from their police department and also be that front facing communicator that I offer the opportunity.

I make sure that I'm accessible to hear all people in Kansas City.

Almost every police department, though, in the entire metro, it's sort of officers.

Yes.

They're all saying we can't find people to service police officers.

Now, is there a through line from Ferguson, do you think, Chief Graves, where people felt, you know, why would I ever want to be a police officer as a result of that?

To what we see today, even in your own department, how many officers are you sure be 300.

300 officers?

Yes.

And in 2019, we had 1300 officers.

So I think we felt a lot of effect after George Floyd.

Just you know, there was a lot of negativity around the profession of law enforcement, even though there are it's still full of really good, good people that are out there trying to make a difference and trying to make their city safer.

You know, there's it did affect some of the the recruitment and also the retention.

We had people that said, hey, this this isn't for me now.

And some of that you got pressures from family families were concerned about their officers being put into dangerous situations.

Is that the same situation in Jackson County, Sheriff 40 Are you short of officers?

Yeah, we're short about nine or ten.

We have applicants all the time.

But I want to hire people when I've hired people with above average standards, I don't want to be mediocre.

I don't want you if you have a lot of other issues.

And one of the questions I personally ask as I interview applicants are, do you have any biases that might impact your ability to serve our county?

And I'll be one person told me, yes, that and he was working on it.

So he's still working on it.

Problem.

And I think it's important to know we have plenty of applicants.

November and December, I tweeted about it and put it on other social media formats.

We had 35 applicants and I was 35.

We hired about three of them.

We're going to be taking a lot of your questions during the course of this program to in fact, you have little question sheets here.

We will have people picking those up from you will get into a lot of questions from you as well.

But we may not remember from Ferguson that actually it was the events of ten years ago during that hot summer that hastened the demand that every single police officer wearing body camera at the recent shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, are spurring calls for police to wear body cameras.

President Obama is calling for $75 million in federal spending to get 50,000 more police to wear body cameras that record their interactions with civilians.

Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill says in light of accusations about police brutality in Ferguson, all police officers ought to wear body cams.

If a local police department gets federal funding, they should be required to have body cams on their on their officers.

No longer would we have to accept a police officer's word for what happened.

We could see it for ourselves.

Gwen?

Well, after Ferguson, we did not get body cams here in Kansas City.

We got body cams in Kansas City for too long after George Floyd.

So we've been asking more than to allow tenure in Ferguson.

And even while we do have body cams here, there's not enough transparency as far as I'm concerned, relative to the community, even knowing what the policies are or officers are required to have their body cams on all the time that they get to choose when to turn it on, when you turn it off, those types of things, and then when there is an incident.

How long will it take for a case, including to share the information?

Because there have been some incidents that my organization and my colleagues in the civil rights movement have been made aware of.

But we cannot get transparency on those incidents.

Transparency is a major pillar to building community trust, and it's one of the foundational elements of strong community policing initiatives.

Here we want to have first of all, though, does every single case CPD police officer, when they're out on the street, have a body camera with them now?

Yes.

And including our detention officers and our body cameras came about.

A private funder provided the moneys to to purchase the body worn cameras.

There was a 2020 and we ended up getting them in 2021.

But we do have policies and procedures that are online.

There are.

And the release of those body camera footage goes underneath the Missouri Sunshine, unless it's an open investigation.

And then then we'll be consulting with the judicial system at that point.

I'm going to come back to that in a moment.

But in Jackson County, Sheriff, every single one of the deputies in your office have a body cam attached to them.

Every time they're out in communities in their patrol cars, out on the street.

Yes, they were issued several years ago.

Is there a requirement that it be constantly turned on?

Is there a disciplinary procedure if they don't have it on?

Yes, but we haven't had that problem about them.

Nocturnal cameras.

I can't think of any incidents where the camera wasn't turned on when there was an issue brought to our attention.

I'm not saying they've turned on every time.

And we hadn't called anybody because they hadn't been in the incident at the time.

And yes, there's disciplinary action if you don't if sometimes you don't turn on if you're investigating something sensitive like a sex abuse case or something like that, or there's explosive devices in the area.

And then there's a couple other exceptions.

Let me make this clear to be real careful what I say, because every time I say something in public, people sue me.

So so it goes to the point it is used later on.

So and that's not all inclusive.

How about in the case, DPD Chief Grace, I mean, are there situations where the police officer didn't turn the camera on?

Is there are disciplinary procedures?

Yes, it's impulsive.

If you are not turning or activating your your body camera, but usually those are if you're going license sirens or certain speeds, it automatically comes on.

Also, just like I'm Forte said, if we are in some type of a sensitive environment, we're not required to turn those on.

This was going to be Jean Peters Baker that if we knew finally what was happening, basically the police are on camera at all times as it worked that way.

It doesn't work that way.

I have had cases where camera is off and we really need it camera to be on.

However, what I will say for police in our area.

Body cams have come and more times than not.

They're probably going to support what the police officer believed happened.

So the studies show also officers tend to be more polite.

I might need to if I if you made me wear this Mike all the time, I am all of you as well might be more polite.

So, you know, there are some other side benefits to body cams that we should all welcome.

So you think it changes police behavior?

I believe it changes some police behavior Just because we have the body cameras, we have that video footage.

How easy is it, though, Gwen, for somebody, a regular member of the public, to request that video footage?

Well, if it's the regular Sunshine Act request, then that's really not that easy.

Earlier this year, a woman did ask for footage of a fatal crash in Kansas City.

And according to the Kansas City Star, in a lawsuit that was filed against the Kcbd, she was told it would cost her $361 because it would cost $64 an hour for CBP officers to screen that information and get that in advance.

Is that what it costs to get that type of footage?

Each each incident is is different.

It depends on how many hours it takes to pull that.

But we constantly are reviewing some of our fee schedules, even as of of late.

In fact, I think we may have just present that to the board at the last board hearing.

So I wonder why there has to be a fee at all.

I mean, it's public information and I don't know why we have to pay to get it.

And I think that is a deterrent to the community when they have a need for information that we have to pay to get it.

We're paying tax dollars to fund the police department.

Surely someone should be able to provide that information.

So should there be a fee then?

Sheriff Forte If I was in charge, it wouldn't be a fee because it public perception and everyone can afford to purchase it.

But at the sheriff's office we can weigh would be if someone's requesting something, send it to the LEGAL'S office.

We can waiver fee if we need to.

What was so what are we not seeing behind the scenes?

We could literally have a whole unit that's dedicated to just providing sunshine requests for your requests.

I mean, we we get a lot of requests for information as you can.

As you can imagine, we're getting lots of questions already from you.

Can all of Philips was someone who was a reporter with the Kansas City Star, had it on a show, just fell in love with her.

And then the next minute, she's working for Kansas City PBS as our engagement director.

Great to have you with us.

You've been taking questions from Kansas City, PBS viewers and from American Public Square members.

What have you got for us?

Okay.

So Alice is asking, what does it say about police training if a trained police officer feels his life is at risk because of an unarmed teenager is approaching him?

What does it say about police training if a trained police officer believes he is exercising self-defense by firing six times at an unarmed teenager?

He's referring back there to the Michael Brown shooting.

What does that tell us about police training and has it changed?

Police training has changed.

It's evolved over the years.

Even me coming in, I've instituted another de-escalation training.

It's called iChat, Integrated Communications and Tactics.

We are constantly evolving and changing some of our our training.

But, you know, if we have some situation that there is a question about the use of force, if if maybe we take a look at it and maybe we're like, oh, we should have someone else take a look at this.

We do have a memorandum of understanding with our our prosecutors and our federal partners that if we have a question or even maybe like a hey, maybe we should let somebody else look at this, we have that obligation to share that footage with with entities outside of the Kansas City, Missouri Police Department, and then they can make a decision of whether if that's excessive or not.

I think the biggest piece.

We talk about de-escalation.

And to me, that's just reduced tension.

When I first joined the police department in 1985, this is what they told you.

You ask someone once, you tell them, and then you make them.

We don't do that anymore.

You can ask them 50 times before.

You'd be frowned upon if you keep asking somebody you asked, telling make.

We don't tell people that anymore.

Have you noticed the improvement in growth since Ferguson and the challenges that we've experienced in the community?

One would say that a lot more training is needed, especially as it relates to de-escalation.

My understanding during George Floyd and the aftermath of George Floyd and everything that was going on, CPD officers were still operating under the they were, you know, not encouraged to de-escalate.

They were encouraged to pursue, to chase in this.

That actually resulted, as far as I'm concerned, in the homicide of Cameron LAMB.

So I think a lot more training needs to occur and is asking Ferguson police left Michael Brown's body in the middle of a street for more than 4 hours in the unrelenting sun with blood streaming from his head.

Did that police decision feel the outrage?

What is CPD's policy for treating victims bodies?

So anytime we have a crime scene, obviously you want to take into account all of those that are not only around that are that are viewing that, but also making sure that two things.

One, that we make sure that we collect the evidence in the best way that we can with the thought behind to make sure that that there is an environment that is surrounding that event that could be very sensitive.

We recognize that there's a sensitivity around those types of scenes.

We hope even being sensitive as I'm explaining it actually.

But we did hear from that question or they're talking about did that fuel the outrage?

I believe.

I believe true.

That's true.

When you see that, in the end, you have a deceased body out there that long and not being able to explain.

I know I've been over 2000 homicide scenes in my career.

I went to a three in Kansas City, not to supervised anything like that, but just to be out there.

So when people are on the fringes, they can say, why are they doing this?

Why they park the car over here?

I can explain to them and I have to keep a connection in the community.

And we go back to talking about building and nurturing relationships.

As a 62 year old male.

I've lost contact with a lot of younger people, and this is my way of stay in contact, staying in contact.

So and you start talking about you just imagine the emotion is going through someone, family, friends or whatever, and there's a body land over there and everybody's walking around like business as usual.

Not that they don't care, but they've been so many.

There's business as usual.

And in all Kansas City, the ones I've been to on the set have been to plenty of them.

They put barriers up now, have they?

So they don't have to look at the body and things like that and that helps them.

Jenkins Baker before Ferguson occurred and I'm working with then Chief Forte, he came up with a policy that said, you know what, CPD, we're not going to leave crime scene tape thrown on the ground when we leave crime scenes.

You are going to pick it up and you're, you know, the gloves that the gloves that you had on to collect, you're not going to leave those on the ground and litter.

It seems like a kind of a small thing that when you think back about that, is showing a care and concern for for a community and a neighborhood and certainly for a particular block that you're not going to leave litter.

You know, from from our work behind.

And that led me then to think about how we respond to those scenes, that the fact that sometimes blood is left behind at a crime scene.

I created a program where I funded a program where someone would come and spray that up, that clean, clean up blood left at crime scenes because of meeting individuals that told me that they had to keep walking across a blood stain on a sidewalk until it finally weathered away.

So those these are horrible things that we're discussing.

But they are also indications of how well people like this will show their care and concern for a community that so desperately needs care and concern.

You have another question.

First call.

Yes.

So Dick is asking, is one of the side effects of Ferguson that every officer involved shooting is now considered a suspect by the public?

Some people and I think we own that as law enforcement because we've done a poor job of sharing some things.

Initially when there was an investigation also involved shooting.

There's not a lot of information that we put out.

And part of the reason is we have to make sure it's accurate before we put it out, because you can't take it back.

So I think we just have to continue to do a better job on sharing information.

And if we can't explain why we can't and you won't listen to me unless you trust me.

So we have to keep building that trust in that in the beginning before you ask me questions about something.

Because even when you talk about the body worn cameras, if you don't trust me and you see footage, you're going to have 50 people talk about, well, it looks like it was edited here, edited here and those kind of things.

So we have to have that trust, that trust we don't have a whole lot.

The trust is not there.

So when there is an officer involved shooting, we are suspicious.

Suspicious efforts.

So we want to see the facts.

We want transparency quickly so that we can dispel any notion that wrongdoing was done.

If it occurred.

So the partnership that needs to exist between law enforcement and community is transparency.

What more would you like then from other?

I would like them to get out in front of it if there is a police involved shooting as quickly as possible.

Yes, we have body cam footage.

Yes, we're going to release it.

And this is when it's going to be released and not sit on it for weeks because it's under investigation.

There are there's other practices, best practices to say the sooner we inform the community, the less of a problem we will have.

So I would like to see more transparency.

And then with even in instances where there are body cams and an officer can choose when to turn it on and when to turn it off.

And we have no history here yet of seeing how effective they are because we've only been using them for a short time.

That begs for more upfront communication between law enforcement and trusted messengers in the community, too, so that we can also be ambassadors to keep peace.

Right.

So there have been some incidents where there were there was a police involved shooting and based on a collaboration that our civil rights community had with the prosecutor's office and their willingness to share information, we were able to stop unrest.

So we prevented people from taking to the streets because we were able to say, hey, these are the real facts here.

You know, chill, don't do anything.

But if you don't communicate with us, then then you want to call us after the fact to try to get people off the street.

And that's sometimes too late.

Chief, we've and I've appreciated that collaboration and the the back and forth communication that we've had.

But to go back to your original question, yeah, sometimes I can tell you from police departments point of view, yeah, sometimes we do feel like, you know, there's a lot of scrutiny policing, you have a lot of authority that is a big responsibility.

And with that responsibility, I would say, because the Missouri Police Department, we do take that that seriously.

We do have our media unit that goes out there to make sure that we give the most accurate information right then when we can.

We also have outside entities that come in and and investigate our officer involved shootings that way there puts a little bit of separation there.

And we are bound by some some laws that restrict our release and some of some of that body worn camera footage We've we've talked about about this.

You know, there are some situations there might be a situation where we might have to ask a judge to see if we can have some of that body worn camera footage released for the good of the city in certain situations.

You know, American Public Square also likes to engage fact checkers.

We have Peggy Lowe from Casey One News who specializes in police and justice issues.

Do we have any fact checks or are we being totally factual on target, on track, Peggy?

Mostly on target.

On track.

Sheriff Forte I only have one tiny thing.

According to FBI statistics, the homicides hit.

They broke 109 in 1968, as you said, but in 1970.

So we're going to give you that one.

Okay.

That's according to the National have a that I was looking at that they gave me pretty good.

Thank you.

So we're doing well.

All righty.

By the way, in this venue, ladies and gentlemen, you have to understand that this is actually would have been part of the new downtown ballpark if the stadium tax had passed in April.

This would have been part of the footprint where you are sitting right now.

Could have been the second base of a new royals downtown ballpark.

Fortunately, this place hasn't been demolished.

So we could gather here and engage our leaders in local law enforcement and civil rights.

You know, after the Michael Brown shooting, a congressional inquiry, a scathing Department of Justice report would call for the hiring of more minority officers, that the militarization of police departments and a shift in tactics for handling protests.

But let's start with minority officers at the time of the Michael Brown shooting.

The city of Ferguson had just three black police officers, even though the city's population was 67% African-American.

So how are we doing where we live?

Does Kansas City, Jackson County have a higher percentage of black, Hispanic, Asian police officers than we did ten years ago?

Chief Graves, I wouldn't say it's too far off from ten years ago, but we do have 24% minority law enforcement officers at the county, Missouri Police Department.

We are constantly looking at different ways where we can hire more minority officers or at least a police department that better reflects Kansas City.

What is the biggest challenge in your judgment?

The biggest challenges is the negative sentiments around law enforcement right now.

There still is another profession, and I will tell you that the people who answer the call to wear this uniform, they are dedicated.

We have a lot of dedicated police officers in Kansas City who really want to go out and do the right thing, and they want to make their city safer.

How about over at the Jackson County Sheriff's Office?

There are 40.

If we look at 2014, at the time of the Michael Brown shooting to today, are there more African-American, Hispanic, Asian officers in your department?

I can tell you, yes.

When I joined the sheriff's office in May of 2018, there had been one black male hired in seven years.

And I won't say this to long assumed we have over a dozen black males now and not one person was hired because of race or gender on the sheriff's office.

We have quality people and we turn down a lot of people.

But I've hired more white males because more white males apply than black males.

So so, yes, we're making we're making some strides in that area, but I don't know what color they are.

I cannot do the interviews by phone.

I just look at the everything out there and we have a lot of quality people.

We have a lot of average people that apply.

I don't take you off the average because when you when you spend in taxpayer dollars, I want people to want to come to work every day.

They're looking to serve.

They care about people.

They're not looking at dollars.

And of course, we have to give everyone a living wage.

But I want people not looking after the $7,000 pay cut And my girlfriend of five years let me when I joined the police department, the life worked out okay.

Because when you want it, when you want to do something, you know, as I interview on that energy and they said, I want to do this because I want to be part of the county, I want to do this.

And so what about the pay?

Not a single person complained about the pay.

And so they get on.

And then on five years, then they complain.

But but but actually, the Kansas City, Missouri, Police Department, City hall just gave a 30% pay raise, was not the staffing officers.

That was just a few months ago.

What does that done for the department and did it increase the number of African-American, Hispanic or Asian officers who said, yeah, you know, I might be interested?

No, it's increase the numbers of many people who want to be consumers a positive impact.

It has.

And, you know, I would say this is the biggest number that I've seen that I signed up for a testing and think was 57 about two weeks ago.

So we are seeing an increase in that.

Not only are we seeing an increase in those that are interested in coming on the police department, but also those that are laterally from other police departments.

And I will say we're not changing our our qualifications to come on to the police department.

I've also seen that.

And I, I saw the reaction from Glenn over here, like we do pay attention to, you know, everybody that come down to the police car, make sure that we're conducting a very thorough background check and that we get the officers who have the heart to serve Kansas City.

Are you satisfied we're doing enough?

All What would should we be doing differently?

Well, I think while while you work on recruiting officers of color, you also have to be very diligent about retaining officers of color.

And currently, KC PD is going through an H.R.

investigation under the Department of Justice because of of discrimination, H.R.

violations.

So those things can be prohibitive to recruiting and retaining black officers.

Back in 2022, the star did a a deep dive story on the challenges that black officers experience inside KC PD.

And so this was relates to transparency.

We do not know how that investigation is going if there's going to be a consent decree or what issued by the DOJ.

But it's been long enough that the community should be updated.

Is it going 60 graves waiting for an update on that.

But but as far as I am aware, there's nothing that we have been advisor that has been in wrongdoing.

I know there are lawsuits and I think Sheriff Forte is has has made that known that sometimes there are lawsuits whenever there is, whether or not the DOJ has has a response in regard to that.

We look at each one of those and say, hey, is there something that that we have done wrong or right?

And if it's wrong that we try to make that change right then and there, trying to try to change that for so that that's not a future issue?

We're getting more questions from you, panel.

What are we getting?

All right.

So Rebecca wants to know, does the hiring of minority officers in communities of similar ethnicity make a difference?

Not necessarily.

Okay.

Not necessarily.

I think what's required is a type of procedural justice training so that people understand at a deeper level the type of policing that that is being required by the leaders of that department.

I think that when you have diversity, what's an organization?

It helps everyone in that organization.

And I'll just give you one one example.

Someone sent me information and said, I'm so glad I was able to ride with this black officer and see black officers at the name and said, We talk so much.

He said, I hadn't been exposed to the black culture.

He said, I learned so much from him and I feel like we're becoming friends now.

So just having some people that have a different mindset and a different cultural environment that they were raised in educational level, military or nonmilitary experience, I think that helps a little bit when you hadn't been exposed and now you're in the car with somebody and now you can talk about some real things and no one's offended.

So I think that that that opens up that door to to help us grow.

And I think that's important in some cases.

I think it's been important for me coming into this role, stepping in as chief of police to make sure that everyone in our organization has the same opportunities and that everyone is treated fairly, that that's something that that has success for me is we're both valued internally and externally, and Kansas City is safer as a result.

I've said that like a broken record.

I want to make sure, like our organization, if we're training ourselves well inside, then we should treat others well outside.

You are increasing diversity in one area, which would be an unexpected to many of us.

But I did see a recent tweeters in the police academy.

Now for the CPD, there is a British officer.

Yes.

Not only are we looking at, you know, making sure everyone is is good at CPD, but also people from different countries.

Yeah, right.

Okay.

That was just one of four countries in that one academy.

Okay.

All righty.

Cannoli.

You have another question?

Yes.

We're getting a lot of questions from the audience about Kansas City having a police department that has state control.

And so people are wondering what inroads can be made to have those conversations and deal with that gap between the state board and the local department.

Does it matter?

Jean Peters Baker Of course it matters.

And you should.

We should not fool ourselves about that.

It's just foolishness not to talk about it with that perspective.

The state of Missouri is a very big, diverse place, and those that the governor that gets to appoint people to this board doesn't necessarily have to know much of anything about Kansas City and the citizens who pay the taxes for all of our officers should have should have a real stake in it.

Someone that lives out of state or out of out of the Kansas City area should not have a greater role in our police department.

It's just it's kind of basic.

It's to me, this is just basic.

It's logical.

I offer you a counterargument.

I would love to watch your lives.

You love that.

Well, I was interested.

You know, one of the things about Ferguson was that the city was requiring the police department to write as many tickets as possible without running out and so that they could raise revenue for the department.

So I was wondering the fact that the Kansas City is not under the control of the city hall meant that they weren't having the squeeze put on them to try and get more fines and tickets from members, the public.

Nick, you pitched the most broken city you could find.

Okay?

You can power Kansas City.

If we really are about excellence, let's not pick the most broken system we can as a comparison.

Okay?

It was just something I thought about.

Sheriff Forte on the response on the state board.

Does that really matter?

I mean, you were there during period of time.

I can tell you that I was glad to be under the state at that time because I had elected officials telling me that I needed to put people on this corner and this property of their and I understand their role and I understand why they were asking they saying that people are worried in this area.

You need to put some horses over here.

And I knew what I needed to do.

So I had a board of police commissioners that said, do what you think you need to do.

And we got through it because I had some people in that that I can think of.

One person that sent me a crazy email telling me about how he didn't support me anymore and these kind of things.

Because if you under local control and now it's a little different.

But when I was police chief, thank God I was under state control with the board that said they trusted me.

Now I might have a city administrator, mayor, mayor, whomever they trust, trust me if I was there or something.

But it would just poison it to say they don't do what you need to do.

That's a different side of this issue.

I could see you shaking your head.

Well, here again, I think that's just a I don't know.

I don't know how to put it.

I don't understand how that just the fact that an elected official might ask you to put someone on the corner or the making people.

Right.

Take this issue is much more complex and bigger than those things.

What's really important here is we are disenfranchized these policies that we're talking about addressing we cannot address because the Board of Police commissioners is not accountable to us.

We have gone to them on numerous occasions asking for these policies to be changed and they ignored them.

It took George Floyd's murder for them to go ahead and push forward to get bodycams.

The governor appoints people who don't represent us demographically.

We have not had a person who lives.

Is the truth appointed by any governor in my time watching it.

So there are a whole number of issues related to that.

And if fact, if there is a corrupt council member or someone, then it's incumbent upon the chief to say, No, you're the leader.

You don't have to break a law because someone told you to.

Especially, I think a law enforcement officer would know that or anyone else.

So I'm just saying like we can't be trivial in a response on something as important as local control of how we're spending our tax dollars and yet having an institution that now we're giving some 31% of our general operating funds to not have to listen to what we want and what we said.

And Nick, to this point as well, Lee's summit can do it.

Blue Springs can do it.

Green Valley Independents.

You know, I have a variety of police departments that I work with and and every other police department in America, you know, has the same kind of pushes and pulls and they do it.

It just gives the community much greater access and a much greater stake in their own police department.

But I know you wanted somebody had something to say about this.

Yeah.

I ask you a question.

First of all, do we get this impression?

Of course.

This is a state appointed board by the governor.

But, you know, we do have local officials here.

How often, for instance, would you meet with Mayor Quinton Lucas?

Oh, he's he's I answer to him.

I talk to him on the phone this morning about.

So it's not like you don't speak to any city officials because we have a state board.

Correct.

In fact, I would say I have two bodies that I answer to.

But going back like body worn cameras.

Then she taught I didn't look at body worn cameras when we were there.

It was a funding is why we didn't have them sooner than than than than we did.

I'm letting you know.

Also, we we do not get 30% from the city it's it's it's 25% right now.

But aside from that, let's talk about local control.

Let's talk about local control.

So some will say that, you know, we're not locally controlled.

I would I would argue with that.

I do understand, though, our board is made up of for those of you don't know, the board of commissioners is made up of five members, four that are appointed by the the governor who are Kansas City residents.

A fifth is a mayor who's a voting member.

I note only answer to the Board of Police Commissioners.

I also answer to the city manager.

I answer to the mayor as he acts as a a as the mayor of Kansas City.

But I also am accountable to the city council.

I am in a lot of meetings with city council.

I have one next, next Monday or Tuesday and maybe even Thursday.

I have that accountability.

The part about my position is, is there's a suggestion that someone else besides the chief of police runs the police department, and that's not true.

I do have operational control of the police department.

If we were locally controlled, I would assume that I would be under the control of the city manager.

So which I'm I already answer to.

And being under a state governing board just gives the the police department just a thin layer of protection from political influence, similar to an example that Sheriff Forte gave.

And I just want to share now, when I was police chief, I'd ask over and over, what does local control look like?

All depends on who you talk to.

We have to know what it looks like.

Before we said we want this.

Does the chief will the chief report to the the entire city council, the city manager, the mayor, whomever, I think is something that needs to be discussed.

And before the decisions made, we need to know what that's going to look like and who you report to.

So that's a very good question.

It does not necessarily mean that because the fire department reports to the city manager that the police chief would report to the city manager.

There have been a number of scenarios discussed as a part of the process so that by the time if we say we're going to move forward, then we could have a plan that voters could say this is what the new structure will look like.

We're the only city in the country that does not have local control.

So all of these other cities have not gone corrupt and missed managed city funds because they're not governed by the state.

Thank you.

Numerous investigations following Ferguson, by the way, cited the militarization of police.

Congressman Emanuel Cleaver says Ferguson police looked, quote, more like heavily armed soldiers as they were called in military style armored vehicles, dispersing crowds with rubber bullets and tear gas.

How, if at all, did Ferguson change the way we police protests?

Did that change say that this evolution from Ferguson and even I can tell you, even before George Floyd, our tactical response team, our our media personnel, whoever knows some of the folks that are organizing the protests, we go out and we say, hey, you know what?

Where are you going to be?

What time?

How can we make this day for you?

I know that under during the Ferguson protests, we helped guide those who wanted to march.

I remember that we we even we even brought them water and got 80 busses to take them back to where their cars were parked.

What we also realized after Ferguson, by the way, was, again, the militarization of the police.

So many police departments, including like Lenexa and Jackson County, had a lot of military equipment, castoffs from the Army for several nights this week.

This was Ferguson, Missouri.

Tanks, combat gear, assault rifles.

It looked like a military operation.

It must disperse immediately.

And that's because police departments in the Saint Louis area, like those across the country, are arming their officers with equipment.

Once on the battlefields, Iraq and Afghanistan, much of it is free of charge or bought with federal grant money authorized by Congress.

Now, in the last year, there has been a surge of armored vehicles into American police and sheriff's departments, including some right here in the metro.

Now, many local police departments get federal grants for heavy police equipment.

A parking lot of the Jackson County Sheriff's Office today, for example, contained a large heavy truck in several military style jeep.

You had some of that equipment.

What happened to that?

Do you still have these military style tanks in the Jackson County Sheriff's Office surplus locker?

We got rid of most of the equipment.

It was one location that you go to.

It would look like a mini military base.

We had so many so much equipment over there.

So we got rid of most of that.

We still have our armored tank.

And it was useful when, you know, the last since February 29th where the independence officer was killed and the process over was laying in the doorway for a long time.

I wouldn't get rid of for anything because if you got a family member that was involved in a barricade situation and they were on the ground and you needed to get to them.

We don't have the equipment, and I'm not going to go to the officer's funeral because I'm worried about what somebody thinks about us using the piece of equipment.

Now, a lot of the other things the launchers and all that crazy stuff, we don't need that.

But we need an armored vehicle whether we get it from the military.

We pay 3 to $4000 for one.

We have to have that to keep our people safe.

We have to have that.

So no way that I would say, well, it looks bad.

You know, it's all the stuff that we were you know, when I came on, all you have was a button and a gun and Hancock case.

Now they got everything on them.

I don't know how they carry all this stuff.

So it looks it looks different.

But we're going to keep our military equipment longer than the sheriff.

We're going to keep a piece of equipment that if you need some help, we're going to be able to get you some help.

And if also you need some help, I'm not going to give them a little shield or welcome.

There were people firing on.

They have so much military grade firearms out there that they used against us.

We're going to always have us a an armored vehicle to keep our people safe.

Can I let you have questions for us?

Don't you?

So Sam is asking, how are you preparing for what could be another volatile situation if Missouri Governor Mike Parson pardons Eric Deval Kinnear, the first Kansas City cop to be convicted in the killing of a black man?

I would just generally say that we prepare for all kinds of events.

We are we're preparing for FIFA 2026.

We're preparing for a potential other celebration that I don't want to for those that are superstitious.

There are a lot of issues talking about the Kansas City Olympic bid.

Yes.

So that's it?

Yeah.

So I you know, specifically the Kansas City, Missouri Police Department routinely does different types of operational plans.

And we are going to be ready for whatever happens in Kansas City.

The same answer we you know, whether it be something that that you mentioned or some other type of civil unrest, we're prepared for it and we train for it on a regular basis.

And that includes some of the conversations that you have with the people that you serve every day, making sure that you have those relationships before something happens.

Judy would like to know with the World Cup on the way, how are you training your officers to handle a massive influx of international fans from different cultures?

I've heard local restaurants are being instructed to translate their menus.

What are you doing to prepare?

We're hiring officers that are from other countries who are.

So you're the one British to handle British soccer hooligans.

In addition to that, we have selected a captain who is our special events and projects who make sure that we give the attention that's needed to each one of these events that are coming to Kansas City, specifically FIFA 2026.

A couple weeks ago, she went we sent her to Germany to to look at how some of those security features are set up.

And in addition to that, we're learning about fan behaviors because it's a little bit different than she's fans were learning.

I've also with the Consular Corps, who have also provided some translation services, and we have, I think it was 46 officers into the Kansas City, Missouri Police Department that speak several different languages from Spanish to Swahili.

So we are we are ready.

We're preparing.

We want to make sure that we are a great host city in Kansas City.

Sheriff, 40, are you hiring British, French and German officers to help with the World Cup if they're highly qualified?

Oh, oh, oh, that's a high bar.

Okay.

Thank you for that.

All right.

Can I have one more question?

Okay.

So Mike is asking, what's the biggest job worry that keeps you up at night?

Okay, Chief Graves, the biggest worry that keeps you up at night.

Two things.

Am I doing enough to make our city safer?

And am I ensuring that our officers are valued and supported both internally?

Externally?

David Forte When I was in the academy, it was drilled into our heads.

Your job is to go home every day.

It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

We heard that over and over, and I said this in the academy in 1985.

What about all the people going home every day?

You know, it's not just about making sure the death is okay.

I want to make sure the people that we're sworn to protect and serve, they're okay as well.

Jean Peters, speaker, this is it's a heavy job and I worry about whether or not I've done everything possible to protect a life.

So.

One of the first things I do, sadly, in the morning is go through.

And did I miss any calls or text?

First of all, like I pray I did not.

But look at the homicides that occurred overnight.

And is it someone that we're connected to in some way?

Is there something we could have done?

What could have been done?

So that's what keeps me awake at night.

Gwen.

Couple of things.

One, how much more gun violence will we experience hoping that there's not another homicide.

But the other is the state of this country and democracy is at risk.

And I'm fearful about what that means, especially for people of color in this country.

It keeps me up at night.

And on that, we will say we have looked at ten years after Ferguson, the state of policing with Kansas City, Missouri Police Chief Stacy Graves, Jackson County Sheriff Darrel, Forte Jackson County prosecutor Jean Peters Baker and the president and CEO of the Urban League of Kansas City.

Gwen Grant and I Nick Haines from all of us here at the Church of the Resurrection downtown in the footprint of what would have been the downtown ball park.

And from our partners at American Public Square and from our fact checkers, Peggy Lowe and the rest of the team.

Thank you so much.

Be well, keep calm and carry on.

Just.